"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
09/10/2019 at 13:29 • Filed to: hammerhead says, LAnd Rover, Defender
8
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"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
09/10/2019 at 13:29 • Filed to: hammerhead says, LAnd Rover, Defender | 8
| 32 |
The new defender is here. I want to start out first and foremost by saying that I’m not onboard with the JLR design boss ethos and his works so Im likely to say that it’ s not very attractive and frankly could be very ugly. Which i did do just now.
Im also an avid Toyota Land Cruiser..ite..which may color my opinions but I’d like to think I can separate the two.
Things I like
1. It exists. Its a new overland focused off-road wagon available in the US
2. It doesn’t come fully loaded. On account of the fact that the Discovery and Rangie exist, this doesn’t need to be those. Thats refreshing.
3. its attainable. 50 grand starting for the 110 isn’y good, but it isn’t bad, and truthfully you get a pretty well built package for around 57.
4. They clearly tried to please everyone...which is a tall ask...and they actually took customer feedback.
Things I don’t like
1. Super ugly, in 5 door or 3 door. That d-pillar treatment is stupid and the little cargo boxes look even worse.
This is some Eddie Bauer mall store level design.
The front end is a mess, and the back is a pointless homage to a door that wasn’t really well loved.
You know what would look good? Taillights where they are supposed to go instead of following a line for no reason other than its there and leaving the fenders looking like homemade fiberglass add-ons with stick on reflectors.
The interior is...shockingly...not bad.
Restrained, tasteful, usable. Too many screens for my taste but I realize that shipped has sailed. The idea of a bench up-front is silly though. Y ou can’t put a child up there in a child seat but thats the only being that would fit given the legroom.
Seriously, thats where legs go, on that hump on the floor that is about 10 inches lower than if the console was still there. to say nothing of hip and shoulder room which is non existant and offset. It would be the worst place I could possibly imagine sitting. I’d rather sit on the roof. Please don’t subject humans to this seat...ever.
22 inch wheels. Did you know you can get 22 inch wheels? 22 INCH WHEELS!
2. Price. “but you just said...” I said attainable. 57 grand really is a great price compared to a La nd Cruiser or Patrol but this thing is the Size of a Unlimited or 4Runner, and competes against those vehicles. You can top those vehicles out around where this one starts and given the technology (aluminum, turbo’s, high tech interior, air springs, etc) to you get a lot for your money, but it also comes with steel wheels, cloth seats, very little luxury. It’s an odd place in the market to live but Land Rover fans wont care...its a credible alternative to Toyota and Jeep.
Okay so do you care about the details? of course you do.
1. Terrain response is FINALLY configurable (if you spec it) in that you can now TELL the center to lock, or the “rear active differential” to “lock”.
“quotes” because the rear diff isn’t a locker, its an electronically controlled clutch LSD with high pressure, meaning in “lock” its effectively a locker, but still has the potential to slip given extreme use. Thats actually probably a good thing to you don’t explode CV’s as tends to happen on locked IRS/IFS vehicles.
What a joy and an overdue feature to be able to tell you 4x4 to be the kind of 4x4 you want and when.
2. Air suspension is standard. yup. thats great in the sense that because its an IRS/IFS you get tons of geometry and clearance benefits. bad because, well, La nd Rover air suspension. 5.8 inches of super raised clearance and 3 inches in actually usable raised clearance is a nice thing to have and the cross- linked systems they have been using can actually provide better than average articulation. As good as solids? no chance, but better than most factory setups, solid or otherwise. So it will be better out of the box* , worse than the aftermarket.
*except worse than its 2 rivals, the 4runner and Wrangler
CRAZY good numbers.
3 . Great approach/breakover/departure
30.1/22/36.7 in standard height on the 110 and 38/28/40 in the highest mode.
8.6/11/5 ground clearance
But the really great numbers?
Payload and towing
4 cy linder
1984/7716 lbs
6 cy linder
1874/8201
And with 4 corner air springs its going to level and ride beautifully. These numbers are legit and frankly this versatility is only available with air spring technology...so if you were thinking “well I’ll just get coils” just remember you’ll have to give something up.
Im not a solid axle luddite . I prefer them but truthfully a well designed system like this will perform well. Will it hold up as well? probably not, but its a technically “better” design.
Im planning to run this through my best overland scoring matrix to see where it lands, I suspect it will score VERY well.
Accessories and packages.
Okay...so these packages are stupid.
The only thing that is real on ANY of them is the raised air intake and the mud flaps.
“but the air compressor! And the rinse system! ”
The air compressor is pansy-ass and is NOT the built in suspension compressor like the Toua reg had . It’ s literally a little bolt in compressor that is “installed” in the cargo area and costs nearly a grand (before installation!)
1 cfm at 40 PSI and 60 psi max. Thats about as strong as ARB’s weakest compressor used mostly just to actuate their lockers. Their base level tire compressor is more than double both those numbers and costs $290 for a complete onboard kit.
The Rinse system? It’ s a jug of water, a hand pump and a spray wand . it costs $406 before installation. Buy a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and get the bonus of not having to hand pump and having hot water.
In short - overpriced garbage. Don’t be suckered in by these gimmicks.
If they really wanted to do something cool they could have made the a stand-on hood option.
Quality? This is the elephant in the room.
Its ev ident that they are really trying to built this one tough, but we all know Land Rover. Tough hardware is no match for shitty electronics and, well, I don’t think they’ve cracked this nut yet.
I would give this a 5 out of 10 on the trust-my-life o meter. W hich is about the same I give my 313,000 Land Cruiser, with the caveat that those scores get bumped up substantially because I know I can field repair it as needed with minimal tools.
That was really the key benefit on the old defender, it wasn’t that it wouldn’t break...because it would...it was that it was really easy to field maintain . This thing? HA! good luck.
Pictured - waiting for the terrain resp onse to reboot.
All in all i have to say that I WANT to hate it. I want to mock it. Thing is...I HAVE to respect it. It’ s going to be crazy capable, its got a low frills interior and steel wheels! (even though they are 18 inch...boo). It’ s a high capacity, high capability, no crap touring wagon and its for sale here in the us for a price that is, if a little high, totally reasonable.
Im going to be watching this VERY closely to see if !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , that utility can still sell in the 50-70 grand range. Im hoping it can.
I hope they sell a metric crap-ton of these (or is it Crapp e- Tonne?) so as to Wake Toyota up and to revive the Land Rover brand.
Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/10/2019 at 13:35 |
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You know what the front bench is for? Dogs. Or CB’s new free puppy.
RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/10/2019 at 13:40 |
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The rear lights went most of the way
back to being in the Series location, and then they moved them out of line so they weren’t on the corner at the end of the body contour line. WHY
OPPOsaurus WRX
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/10/2019 at 13:46 |
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air suspensions....
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HammerheadFistpunch
> OPPOsaurus WRX
09/10/2019 at 13:48 |
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where nothing can possibli go wrong.
adamftw
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/10/2019 at 13:49 |
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My $.02?
It’s going to sell like hotcakes and start unhinging the high-end JL market.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> adamftw
09/10/2019 at 13:52 |
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I don’t think so. I think there is VERY little crossover between Je ep folk and Land Rover Folk. The overland crowd is going to go nuts for this, but thats still a relatively small community.
vicali
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/10/2019 at 13:54 |
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I like that they make it,
I’m just not that into it.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> vicali
09/10/2019 at 13:58 |
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Thats where I sit.
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adamftw
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/10/2019 at 13:58 |
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Its not going to take away Jeep folk, it’ll take away the “Offroad lifestyle vehicle” folk which is, in my opinion, the majority of JLU customers... especially where I live. You might not see that sort of thing as much in SLC.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> adamftw
09/10/2019 at 13:59 |
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Thats a good chance. Though you have to remember to get the same level of comfort and luxury as a top level S ahara or limited (T oyota) you are going to be spending 70+, which is well away from Wrangler territory.
LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
> Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
09/10/2019 at 14:07 |
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Exactly my thought, too. Doggo in front!
Of course, then he needs to climb over either me or my wife to hang a head out the window, which could be uncomfortable or even dangerous.
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LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/10/2019 at 14:09 |
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Question on the roadshower: If one is properly driving a challenging trail, wouldn’t one wish to NOT have an extra 60-ish pounds on the roof?
Maybe this is actually not a big deal, I honestly don’t know, please clarify.
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vicali
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/10/2019 at 14:10 |
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Where I would like to sit;
$9K CAD
Brickman
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/10/2019 at 14:12 |
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Looks like someone designed the front and another team designed the rear. Front looks utilitarian and the rear looks like a hatchback car with a spare tire.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
09/10/2019 at 14:22 |
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Not a big deal. Not ldeal but no biggie. A roof rack system weight about that.
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LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/10/2019 at 14:42 |
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The money to buy the LR “expedition roof rack” weighs about that. They are listing it for $1,851.00, not including installation costs. Ouch.
Although I see some “ultra” racks for the 4Runner going for $1,350, without installation. But, still.
(Can you tell I’m almost done configuring a Defender? I can’t believe I haven’t seen a LR branded awning yet. And they don’t show the factory RTT yet. )
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LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/10/2019 at 15:10 |
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Hmm, built out to do more than I likely need, holding back on the under armour, but adding a couple of frills like a white roof with expedition rack, and heated seats, delivered MSRP is $59 k.
Key question is, if this is meant to do great things off-road, should one get the “Electronic Active Differential with Torque Vectoring by Braking?” Would not getting it make the “Configurable Terrain Response” less effective? (I’m guessing that three months from now the overlanders will have determined the exact right configuration.)
Time to go back to looking at sub-$10k 4Runners now.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
09/10/2019 at 15:19 |
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You definitely want the active rear diff. It would allow you to lock up the rear diff via the reconfigurable terrain management ,
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LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/10/2019 at 15:31 |
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Welp, guess I need to up the price on my fictitious purchase, then.
AMGtech - now with more recalls!
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/10/2019 at 16:43 |
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No Safari roof? No want!
Rugged Simplicity
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/10/2019 at 19:42 |
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I agree with you.
By the way, here’s a good/not great picture it outfitted with a front bench. Looks ‘a shin buster!
samdiego
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/10/2019 at 21:59 |
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“ That was really the key benefit on the old defender, it wasn’t that it wouldn’t break...because it would...it was that it was really easy to field maintain”
Personal experience was the breakdowns that counted were not field fixable (computer, transmission ) The field fixable aspect was also complicated since the NAS Defender used both standard and metric bolts depending on the assembly... so the tool bag had quite the mix.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> samdiego
09/10/2019 at 23:29 |
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thats rough. I love my Toyota’s specifically because a 10/12/14 socket set , a screw driver set and and some grease will solve just about any problem
SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/11/2019 at 07:53 |
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I want to like it. I want to want it. But I can’t. And the prospective starting price of the 110 here is 70 grand... well over Prado territory and very close to 79 Series 4 door money. And given Toyota support is everywhere but LR is confined to major population centres...nope.
Maybe when the 130 gets going in 2022?
But I looked at a SsangYong Musso XLV yesterday. Seats five real people. Can be had with a manual gearbox. And a flat alloy tray . And 50 mm factory lift. Tows 3,500 kg with a 600 kg payload (or 1000 kg payload if not towing)...around $45,000.
Pistol Whipped Cream
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/11/2019 at 12:51 |
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Great write up! I like it in the sense that if I was rich enough to change my car annually I could see myself trying this.
22 inch wheels?! Yikes. Way too big. I also read you can’t change the front bumper without messing with the cooling system? There are key components in there.
Add on’s - yes they are a rip off but 99% percent of the buyers are financing this thing so it won’t really change their payment.
Toyota please make us proud soon. I watched Doug D’s Video on the newest LX and it was bad.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> Pistol Whipped Cream
09/11/2019 at 12:52 |
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it was bad.
SWITAWI
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/12/2019 at 12:42 |
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Nicely-worded, Hammer.
Not that I can afford one , but I went through the online configuration and a couple things annoyed me about the packaging. You have to take the $12k j ump to the 6cyl if you want an interior color other than black, but t hen i t seems y ou can’t downsize from 20" back to 18" wheels once you make that jump . Also, why is the White Contrast Roof option only available with certain colors? M aybe these things will change as the model comes to market and dealers get actual requests for specific combinations.
The stupid panel on the window is stupid. It smacks of afterthought. I wonder if they considered having the side box lid open downward instead, so it could serve as an ad hoc staging surface . I feel t hey would have been better off following the aftermarket and offering an i nset storage unit with a locking hatch panel as a full window replacement option.
I do like the 6-seat option to provide a small center jump seat instead of the center console.
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samdiego
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/12/2019 at 16:23 |
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The oil pan plug on that rover V8 is a 1 1/8" standard hex.
It’s a large one to keep around for sure, but does also work as a hammer of sorts when needed . I once watched a Jiffy lube guy walk by with channel locks intending to get it off the pan that way (Even though I had the wrench on the seat for him) we had a discussion about that...
TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/13/2019 at 16:14 |
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For $ 56,630.00; Steel wheels, Towing package and off road package mated to the I4. Honestly everything you really need from LR, the aftermarket will take care of the rest for much less.
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TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
> AMGtech - now with more recalls!
09/13/2019 at 16:25 |
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Sorry buddy, they stopped selling the S afari R oof in the late 70's early 80's :/.
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AMGtech - now with more recalls!
> TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
09/13/2019 at 18:00 |
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Exactly.
Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
> HammerheadFistpunch
06/14/2020 at 21:32 |
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